{"id":479888,"date":"2018-12-14T07:52:17","date_gmt":"2018-12-14T14:52:17","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/www.rollingstone.com\/?p=767961"},"modified":"2018-12-14T07:52:17","modified_gmt":"2018-12-14T14:52:17","slug":"rushs-geddy-lee-talks-massive-new-bass-book-meeting-john-paul-jones","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/alwaysmountaintime.com\/kqzr\/music-news\/rushs-geddy-lee-talks-massive-new-bass-book-meeting-john-paul-jones\/","title":{"rendered":"Rush\u2019s Geddy Lee Talks Massive New Bass Book, Meeting John Paul Jones"},"content":{"rendered":"

\u201cI have to get back to my day job sooner rather than later,\u201d Geddy Lee<\/a> says with an exhausted laugh. While Rush<\/a> played what could be their farewell show in August 2015, the frontman has never been busier. He\u2019s spent the past seven years collecting hundreds of vintage bass guitars \u2014\u00a0a hobby that evolved into an obsession, a globe-spanning treasure hunt and finally an unexpected side career.<\/p>\n

The result is Lee\u2019s\u00a0Big Beautiful Book of Bass<\/em>, a coffee-table tome as epic as the first side of Hemispheres<\/em>. Throughout 408 pages, he explores the sonic and physical nuances of 250 basses in lovingly nerdy detail, weaving in inside-baseball anecdotes, collectors\u2019 tales, vivid photographs, and interviews with giants of the instrument like Led Zeppelin\u2019s John Paul Jones<\/a>, U2\u2019s Adam Clayton, Metallica\u2019s Robert Trujillo, Primus\u2019 Les Claypool and the Rolling Stones\u2019 Bill Wyman.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n

The project started with a simple, yet somewhat impossible, goal: to figure out why exactly his 1972 Fender Jazz Bass \u2014 the same crusty ax he purchased on tour in 1977 at a random pawn shop in Kalamazoo, Michigan \u2014 sounded so damn perfect. Was it the physical materials? The wiring? Was it all in his head? He\u2019d never been able to replicate the instrument\u2019s particular tone with any other bass. Naturally, he decided to collect one model from every year between 1960 and \u201972, with the goal of comparing them all. The collection snowballed, and the book was a natural extension of that quest\u00a0for the low-end truth.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n

\"Geddy<\/p>\n

Photo: Harper Collins<\/p>\n<\/div>\n

The workload was daunting, as Lee and co-writer Daniel Richler assembled a \u201croundtable\u201d of bass experts for historical expertise, tracked down collectors of rare pieces (ever heard of a Rickenbacker Light Show bass?), and spent endless hours tweaking and pruning a manuscript that, in its initial form, nearly frightened their editor.<\/p>\n

\u201cThis is the edited version,\u201d Lee says of the finished product, out December 18th. \u201cWhen my editor first received it, she was very complimentary. She said two things \u2014 that she loved the way my passion for the instruments played out and that she was surprised how much humor was there. But she also said, \u2018I\u2019ve never received a manuscript of 845 pages, so I think we\u2019ve got some work to do.’\u201d<\/p>\n

While Lee is thrilled to gush about this \u201clabor of love,\u201d he\u2019s also itching to get back in his studio and make music. \u201cThis book took me so much time, and now I\u2019m feeling really guilty that I\u2019ve been away from playing \u2014 actual playing \u2014 as opposed to playing [basses] for the purpose of describing them in my book,\u201d he says.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n

He\u2019s unsure what form that next creative step will take. As he told Rolling Stone<\/em> in a previous interview<\/a>, he\u2019s still open to the idea of recording a follow-up to his lone solo LP, 2000\u2019s My Favourite Headache<\/em>. But when he finally does dive back into music-making, it\u2019s safe to say he\u2019ll have some new sounds to experiment with. \u201cThe basses are in storage somewhere in a high-security vault surrounded by a moat surrounded by alligators surrounded by dogs,\u201d he jokes. \u201cI keep some in the studio so I have some around to play, and I try to move them in and out and enjoy them as much as I can.\u201d\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n

Lee spoke with Rolling Stone<\/em> about interviewing bass gods, the monster tone of Yes\u2019 Chris Squire<\/a>, his love of obscure prog, his grandiose quest to chase down the perfect sound and how his sprawling collection may influence his next project (whatever and whenever that may be).<\/p>\n

The \u201cBig\u201d in your book title is no joke \u2014 this is a huge volume. How did you go about putting it together?
<\/span><\/strong>It was really interesting for me, having never done a book before. It\u2019s one thing to sit down with a writer and a typewriter and work on a novel based on things that are living in your head. That\u2019s a very intimate exchange between pen and paper. But to do a coffee-table book based on so many photographs and a historical timeline, it\u2019s more like making a documentary. It\u2019s a lot of pieces that are constantly dependent upon each other but also constantly in flux. The rewriting, if you can imagine, is almost as much work or more work as the initial writing. Every time you change a photograph, the captions have to change. The interesting thing from a design perspective for me was working on the layout. I might have wanted to have two pages for this one instrument, but then you\u2019ve got to deal with what impact that has on the instruments that you follow and precede in terms of how they lay out on the spread. You\u2019re sort of a slave to the spread, which made it a moving target. It was a lot to get my head around [laughs<\/em>].<\/p>\n

You write very beautifully in the book about your first \u201cgood bass,\u201d a 1968 Fender Precision. How important was that instrument to you and your evolution as a player?
<\/strong>The \u201968 Precision was the first good bass that I was ever able to scrape the money together to buy. I\u2019d played other, less expensive basses, and when I had enough money, I went in to buy that. I remember at the time that the salesman recommended it as a \u201cworkhorse bass.\u201d And what does that mean, \u201cworkhorse\u201d? First, it was virtually indestructible, which came in handy as I was playing all kinds of high schools and bars in the early days. But it also had really solid, classic tone, especially in the lower mid-range and the bottom end \u2014\u00a0no matter how crappy your amplification was, you were still able to get enough bass presence to where you\u2019d be heard in these smaller clubs. I think that\u2019s why so many bass players are drawn to the Precision bass because it\u2019s a marvel of the way Leo Fender\u2019s brain operated. I talked to a lot of people who played P Basses, and it\u2019s just the most reliable instrument. It\u2019s also a bit of a chameleon because I was experimenting with a lot of different sounds back then. You could crank up the top end, and it would come out for you; you could turn up the bottom end, and it would come out for you. The guy was right \u2014 that\u2019s what makes a \u201cworkhorse.\u201d It can be what you want it to be, and it won\u2019t let you down.<\/p>\n

You played some of these vintage basses onstage during Rush\u2019s R40 tour. Was that part of your research in a sense?
<\/span><\/strong>Absolutely. What started this whole crazy thing of collecting these things was a curiosity about why my \u201972 Jazz Bass sounded the way it did. For years I had trouble matching that sound \u2014 I couldn\u2019t find a back-up for it that was equal. You ask yourself why. That\u2019s the question that pervades the book, especially in the Fender chapter: \u201cWhy do these things sound the way they do?\u201d \u201cWhy do certain years turn out to be so much desirable and great-sounding than other years?\u201d It\u2019s a very difficult question to answer, and I tried to sum it up at the end with my ideas about, \u201cWhat is this witchcraft?\u201d But it began as a curiosity and a comparison. In order for me to understand the \u201972, I decided that I was going to buy a Jazz Bass from every year from its inception in 1960 right up to the one I was using in \u201972 \u2014 with the view to A\/B them, to look inside them and get the feel and find out why people talk so much about the pre-CBS years. What happened with the takeover in 1965? Did the quality change? Was it a qualitative change? Was it a practical change? What were all the steps leading up to the instrument I was using?<\/p>\n

You can\u2019t really say you know your instrument if you don\u2019t know where it came from. I was never curious about that before because I was happy with the sound I was getting and never questioned it. When I went to look into finding a backup for it, I realized there were a lot of questions that needed answered. That\u2019s what started this whole insanity. So you\u2019re right: Every time I had the opportunity to use them in a live performance or context, it informed my understanding of the instrument, and that really helped me explain things to myself. When it came time to write the book, I thought, \u201cIt\u2019s one thing to put all these pretty photos in a book, but it\u2019s another to say a word or two about what they\u2019re like to play and how they respond in the context of the band I\u2019m in.\u201d I thought that [would] make for a more practical explanation of the sonic value and the pros and cons of each instrument.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n

You\u2019re known primarily for playing Rickenbacker and Fender basses, but you ended up collecting \u2014 and, in the book, showcasing \u2014 all kinds of other brands.
<\/span><\/strong>I realized that I\u2019ve been so focused on creating my sound that I disregarded as irrelevant anything that didn\u2019t fit into the formula I considered feeding my sound \u2014 which is kind of foolish but also understandable. For example, I never took Gibson basses seriously because they have a muddier, deeper sound \u2014\u00a0much harder to get that twang that I love in my sound. So they were pushed off my plate, like when a little kid has peas on his plate \u2014\u00a0he doesn\u2019t want to do there [laughs<\/em>]. Yet friends of mine played Thunderbirds, for example, and loved them. When I started doing this whole revisionist look at the instrument, I had to check those out. As a player 42 years into my career, how does that feel in my hand? I found that fascinating, and I fell in love with all the bottom end coming out of those basses. I wasn\u2019t sure I could use them in the context of Rush, but of course you can. You have the technology to make that adapt to your situation. I brought two T-Birds out on tour with me. I was fascinated by what I found out about the sound of Rush by trying to use those T-Birds.<\/p>\n

Mixing Rush\u2019s music isn\u2019t easy. You have a guitarist with a lot of mid-range in his sound; you have a drummer who has a ton of cymbals and hardware, and that\u2019s all midrange; and you have a bass guitarist who likes to have a lot of top and mid-range in his sound. So mixing Rush is always a bit of an argument between these three instruments and finding a place for them. What I discovered about the T-Bird is that it has such a different kind of lower mid-range and bottom end that that sits right under Alex\u2019s guitar, and it sort of sits in the hole that no one else is occupying. I was able to make the bass much louder in the context of the mix \u2014 much more audible because it didn\u2019t have that clangy, twangy upper mid-range that was fighting for space. In a way, I learned a lot \u2014 I learned that bass could have been very useful to me in certain circumstances if I hadn\u2019t been so narrow-minded back in the day.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n

The amount of detail in this book is staggering. What was your process for tracking down leads and photographs and getting these first-hand accounts?
<\/strong>One of the reasons I wanted to do the book is that during the course of tracking down instruments or stumbling upon them, my curator and tech, \u201cSkully\u201d McIntosh, would find an instrument and discover a story that the previous owner knew about it. Once we started to get three or four of these stories, we discovered, \u201cWow, this is what guitar-cheology is all about.\u201d It\u2019s fascinating to know where these things came from, who played them, what kind of life these instruments lived before they reached my hands. But some of that isn\u2019t verifiable. We would talk to the person we acquired the bass from \u2014 whether it was a collector or dealer \u2014\u00a0and find out as much as we could about it; we\u2019d do research into the instrument\u2019s period, and sometimes we\u2019d get lucky.<\/p>\n

I realized many times during the course of this book that I would need information that is just beyond me. We started to put together a roundtable of people that were really well-versed in each particular brand so we could go to them when our knowledge was lacking or when book knowledge didn\u2019t cover everything. There\u2019s nothing like a collector to find out minutiae that even players don\u2019t know. For a collector, it\u2019s their life; for a player, it\u2019s their tool. So you\u2019re much better off talking to a collector about minutiae. It\u2019s a bit of a game. Daniel and I would sit at our computers and scour the web for hints, for clues, as to who we could contact or who might have a picture. It\u2019s the ultimate treasure hunt, and you\u2019re looking for any clues you can add to your treasure map.<\/p>\n

\"Geddy<\/p>\n

Geddy Lee and John Paul Jones, 2010. Photo: by Mick Hutson\/Redferns<\/p>\n<\/div>\n

A cool side perk of writing this book was that you got to interview so many iconic bassists. Obviously Led Zeppelin was a huge influence on early Rush, so it\u2019s fitting that you spoke with John Paul Jones.
<\/strong>First of all, he\u2019s an incredibly lovely guy. If you ever have the opportunity to sit down with one of your heroes, it\u2019s never an easy situation \u2014 it\u2019s always a bit nerve-racking, and you never know what to expect.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n

When I started putting the book together, I realized, \u201cThis kind of book can be really dry. How do you bring these pieces of wood and plastic and metal to life? You show the people who played them.\u201d That led me on two directions: stock photographs going back to the period that show the people that I listened to holding these instruments; through my memories and nostalgia we have a connection between that instrument, the time it was made, and the bands in England or the U.S. that were playing them. The other thing is talking to people who played them or collected them and can bring more insight than I can possibly bring in my seven-, eight-year experience collecting. I could have very happily done a book of nothing but talks with bass players. But it wasn\u2019t just about just choosing the greatest bass players in the world \u2014 that\u2019s an endless list, and there are a lot of guys I would have loved to sit down with for an hour or two; but if they didn\u2019t have a strong connection to the theme of the collection, then I didn\u2019t feel it was appropriate to call them up. John, for example, was perfect for me because a) he was such an influential player in my life; b) he plays what I consider the greatest period of Fender Jazz Bass, a \u201962, on all those early Zep albums; and c) he\u2019s a lovely guy. He\u2019s the perfect combination of someone to interview.<\/p>\n

He took my request very seriously. I sent him a letter saying, \u201cHere\u2019s what Im doing. I would love to sit down with you for an hour and talk about your first or favorite instrument.\u201d He showed up ant my place in the U.K., paid for his own taxi, brought two basses with him, came over for the afternoon. He originally used this bass that he no longer owned. He actually tracked one down and purchased it so he could show me what his original bass was like. That shows the level of seriousness of the person. We just had a great talk. What I really wanted to get out of people like him and Bill Wyman were their memories and motivation \u2014 what was it like in the early Sixties to go shopping for a bass? We\u2019re talking about basses that are 50, 60 years old now, but there are a few guys around still who knew what was available to a young player in London in the late Fifties, early Sixties. What kind of basses did you dream of owning? How were these basses that are in the book acquired, and could you afford to acquire them? All these bassists began their lives on cheaper instruments, and they made do with what they could get and aspired to these better ones. It was really fascinating.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n

I loved reading about how you bought that super rare 1963 Sonic Blue P Bass\u00a0from the collector in the Japanese music shop. You write about how he bought the bass for his friend 35 years before and was selling it for him \u2014 a pretty touching moment. People have such attachments to these instruments.
<\/strong>There were two things I wanted to say in this book about vintage instruments. Most collectors, understandably, want an instrument that\u2019s frozen in time: They want an instrument somebody bought but maybe it wasn\u2019t the right instrument for them, so they put it in a guitar case and it went to sleep under somebody\u2019s bed for a million years. That\u2019s the collector\u2019s mentality: You want a mint, untouched example from 1960 or 1955, whatever it happens to be. I\u2019m like that too.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n

But there\u2019s that other side of the coin: an instrument that\u2019s had a life of its own, an instrument that\u2019s been the only thing someone was able to afford. They earned enough money to buy one \u2014 whether he made a living out of it or had a straight job and played his bass in the evenings. It was his bass; it was his life, and he\u2019s wrapped up and connected to that. They look like they\u2019ve lived a life \u2014 they\u2019re what I call the \u201croad warriors.\u201d All those wounds on it, all that wear and tear, came with a good cause. I love those basses. When you find one of them that was owned by one guy his whole life, you realize that\u2019s a life. It\u2019s like talking to a guy who\u2019s been playing music for 50 years \u2014 you\u2019re having a conversation with a man\u2019s bass. I love the duality, and I tried as much as I could in the book to show that. The bass you\u2019re asking about that I found in Tokyo, this lovely guy at this shop found it for him something like 35 years ago in California at a guitar show, brought it back for him, and he\u2019s used it all this time. Now he\u2019s in his seventies, and he can\u2019t really play anymore, so he\u2019s trying to get some money for it because it\u2019s become really valuable and it\u2019s a relic from another time. It\u2019s rare that I can talk to the person and get the history face-to-face. I know that\u2019s something Joe Bonamassa, who\u2019s a big guitar collector and has an amazing collection, does a lot. He calls them his \u201cguitar safaris.\u201d He gets out in these towns that he\u2019s touring and meets people and gets the stories first-hand.<\/p>\n

This isn\u2019t bass-related, but I was thrilled to read in the book that you\u2019re a Van Der Graaf Generator fan.
<\/strong>There was a whole slew of these prog bands that were very popular in Canada. A lot of them would come over and tour Quebec and go back to England because there was such a big prog market there. Back when Genesis were really at the forefront of that whole movement, they were popular in Quebec really before a lot of the rest of North America. Bands like the Strawbs, Van Der Graaf Generator, Gentle Giant \u2014 Gentle Giant were massive in Quebec. They would do arena shows there. I never saw Van Der Graaf live. I did see [frontman] Pete Hammill on a tour where he was opening for another band, just on guitar. I loved Van Der Graaf. I can\u2019t say I\u2019ve listened to their music in ages, but I have all their albums from back in the day on vinyl that I keep tucked away in my house. I\u2019m probably way overdue to revisit those records and remind myself what I loved about them. But they had a dark and sort of brooding sound that I really liked at the time.<\/p>\n

You also write about the influence of Chris Squire, who achieved one of the most distinct bass sounds ever recorded. Can you pinpoint what makes his tone so unique?
<\/strong>In the beginnings of my formative years, I would say Jack Casady, Jack Bruce, John Entwistle, John Paul Jones, Chris Squire \u2014 these guys had the most impact on me, and in particular Chris Squire. Because although all these guys, with maybe the exception of John Paul Jones, had a bit of twang in their sound, probably Entwistle and Squire are the ones who are most closely aligned \u2014 if you listen to \u201cMy Generation,\u201d there\u2019s a hell of a lot of twang on that bass. I think Chris Squire sort of took that idea to the next level. He played with a pick, and I never realized that until I saw him live. When I was listening to those records, I was amazed at the amount of twang and thwack. And I thought, \u201cMan, how does he get that out of his fingers?\u201d Of course, when I saw him live, I went, \u201cAhh, pick!\u201d I\u2019d been trying to do it with my fingers and thwack the shit out of my bass to get that sound. But the pick definitely helps that sound, and a lot of guys use a pick for that reason. But I developed a way of replicating [it] or at least trying to.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n

\"Chris<\/p>\n

Chris Squire live with Yes, 1979. Photo: David Boe\/AP\/Shutterstock<\/p>\n<\/div>\n

This is how you get your own sound: You think you\u2019re replicating your hero\u2019s sound, but of course you can\u2019t. Chris Squire\u2019s sound comes from his fingers, his hands, from him. You can put the same bass, the same amplification in the same song with another player, and it\u2019s not gonna sound like Chris Squire. Only Chris Squire sounds like Chris Squire. Only John Paul Jones sounds like John Paul Jones. That\u2019s the personality of the player. When I was producing records for a short time a number of years ago, guys would come in and say, \u201cI would love to sound like this guy.\u201d I would say, \u201cI\u2019d love you to sound like that guy, but you\u2019re not that guy. We\u2019ll give you a similar sound to that guy, but you\u2019re gonna sound you \u2014 you\u2019re never gonna sound like him because you\u2019re you, and you should celebrate the \u2018you-ness\u2019 of that.\u201d My sound partly came about from trying to imitate all these guys I mentioned. But failing to get it right is actually your benefit \u2014 when you fail to mimic them, you accidentally get your own thing out of it. I often say that style comes from being influenced by so many people that you can no longer recognize the influence and you\u2019ve developed confidence in your own personality and that\u2019s started to supersede the influences.<\/p>\n

It\u2019s interesting that you were first intrigued by Rickenbackers after seeing Paul McCartney play one during the international TV broadcast of \u201cAll You Need Is Love.\u201d<\/a> Think about how weird that bass must have looked to young players in the 1960s.
<\/strong>We\u2019re so accustomed to them now, but when you think back to that moment \u2014 I do remember seeing Paul McCartney on television and going, \u201cWhat is<\/em> that?\u201d That was my first experience with the cresting wave of the Rickenbacker bass. You think about the Gibson Thunderbirds that came out in late \u201963 \u2014 a very unusual bass, and now they\u2019re the among the most sought-after relics you can find. They\u2019re sought-after because they\u2019re great and unusual-looking, but also because they weren\u2019t popular \u2014\u00a0they looked too weird for people at the time. I found that really interesting, the point you\u2019re bringing up: How must they have looked at the time? How must it have looked for an upright bass player to see an ad for an electric bass in 1951? There\u2019s Leo Fender\u2019s plank and canoe paddle, as they jokingly referred to the P Bass, and some guy who\u2019s been hauling his bass on the roof of his car because that\u2019s how bass players got from show to show \u2026 They wouldn\u2019t fit in the car \u2014 they\u2019d either have to go in the bus or a van or tie it to the roof of the car. Now you\u2019re in 1951, and this guy\u2019s holding this weird thing that goes on the shoulder like a guitar. I\u2019m sure a lot of people laughed at it, but there were also probably a lot of bass players going, \u201cThat would make my life a lot easier.\u201d I like to think about those moments of when these things were invented.<\/p>\n

Now that you\u2019ve allowed yourself to experiment with so many basses, I imagine you have more perspective on what tones you can achieve and what you can do sonically. Has this process opened your eyes in a creative sense?
<\/strong>Absolutely, yes. Every time you put a bass in your hands, you go to a different place as a player. The bass makes you play a particular way. You can impose your will on it, but you tend to feed into the attributes of each individual instrument. I\u2019m really curious to see where that takes me as a writer of bass parts, so hopefully one day I\u2019ll gather enough of these things together and actually do some music.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n

via:: Rolling Stone<\/a><\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

\u201cI have to get back to my day job sooner rather than later,\u201d Geddy Lee says with an exhausted laugh. While Rush played what could be their farewell show in August 2015, the frontman has never been busier. He\u2019s spent the past seven years collecting hundreds of vintage bass guitars \u2014\u00a0a hobby that evolved into […]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":2,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"footnotes":""},"categories":[56],"tags":[],"class_list":{"0":"post-479888","1":"post","2":"type-post","3":"status-publish","4":"format-standard","6":"category-music-news"},"acf":[],"publishpress_future_action":{"enabled":false,"date":"2026-06-11 12:23:59","action":"change-status","newStatus":"draft","terms":[],"taxonomy":"category","extraData":[]},"publishpress_future_workflow_manual_trigger":{"enabledWorkflows":[]},"distributor_meta":false,"distributor_terms":false,"distributor_media":false,"distributor_original_site_name":"KQZR - The Reel","distributor_original_site_url":"https:\/\/alwaysmountaintime.com\/kqzr","push-errors":false,"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/alwaysmountaintime.com\/kqzr\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/479888","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/alwaysmountaintime.com\/kqzr\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/alwaysmountaintime.com\/kqzr\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/alwaysmountaintime.com\/kqzr\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/2"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/alwaysmountaintime.com\/kqzr\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=479888"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/alwaysmountaintime.com\/kqzr\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/479888\/revisions"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/alwaysmountaintime.com\/kqzr\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=479888"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/alwaysmountaintime.com\/kqzr\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=479888"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/alwaysmountaintime.com\/kqzr\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=479888"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}